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Feature Requests & Discussion
Visual ETF Trader Needs Inverse List
Last Activity 7/16/2019 1:13 PM
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JohnW

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Subject : Visual ETF Trader Needs Inverse List
Posted : 8/23/2015 4:42 PM
Post #9405

There are no inverse ETF's in the Nirvana prepopulated list in the Visual ETF Trader profile.

Last Friday EVERY ETF was in the "Below" list with red ink.
Trading this list in a falling market will be painful! Frankly I had expected a mixed list of normal and inverse ETF's to realise the benefits of ETF trading.

I respectfully request that Nirvana provide a prepopulated inverse ETF list ASAP to fully complement the capabilities of Visual ETF Trader.

[Edited by JohnW on 8/23/2015 6:05 PM]

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THELGET

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Subject : RE: Visual ETF Trader Needs Inverse List
Posted : 8/24/2015 7:34 AM
Post #9407 - In reply to #9405

JohnW:

Amen - just check out the pre-market this morning.

We are already down more than the fall on Friday - 4.5% so far and the markets have an hour to open.

http://www.nasdaq.com/extended-trading/pmi.aspx

Tom Helget
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Visual ETF Trader Needs Inverse List
Posted : 8/24/2015 10:49 AM
Post #9408 - In reply to #9405

You should have a profile entitled "SectorETFsWithInverses" if you wish to use it.
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JohnW

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Subject : RE: Visual ETF Trader Needs Inverse List
Posted : 8/24/2015 5:17 PM
Post #9413 - In reply to #9408

In the profile "SectorETFsWithInverses" all the Inverses are setup as "Symbols", whereas normal ETF's are setup as Groups and Symbols.

Could you comment on why the "SectorETFsWithInverses" profile is setup the way it is?

Also the profile "VisualETFTrader" seems much more comprehensive than just "SectorETFsWithInverses", but it has no inverses.

I still respectfully request that the "VisualETFTrader" profile be expanded to include not only the inverse sector ETF's but also many other inverse ETF's that are available.

If you don't want to fiddle with "VisualETFTrader" could you provide a third more comprehensive profile of ETF's and Inverses beyond just sector inverses. Your customers would love you, particularly in down markets!
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Visual ETF Trader Needs Inverse List
Posted : 8/25/2015 11:14 AM
Post #9423 - In reply to #9413

1. Inverse ETFs, as far as I know, do not have stock constituents, so they can't be displayed in that same format.

2. VT does not have a way to identify an inverse ETF. So if you're looking at FAS there isn't any way in the software so far that tells you the inverse is FAZ. It wouldn't make sense to have FAZ added as a constituent for FAS, so in that profile we have a separate group for the inverses.

It would be possible to create Sectors grouping them. Say you could have a Sector called Direxion Financial or FAS/FAZ. Then in that Sector you could have the FAS ETF plate with constituents as well as an FAS Inverse plate that only contains FAZ in it. That way one has a way of knowing which inverses go with what. If you think that would help, let me know & I can update the profile in that sector format & attach it.

3. Not every ETF has an inverse. And we do not have a list of ETFs with their associated inverse ETFs. Every ETF in that profile has a direct correlated inverse that we know of (such as FAS / FAZ). If you have a list of these that you would like to share I would be happy to update our SectorETFsWithInverses profile with more ETFs.

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jimb

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Subject : RE: Visual ETF Trader Needs Inverse List
Posted : 8/27/2015 10:55 AM
Post #9438 - In reply to #9405

John W,

Attached are some inverse ETFs that might be of interest - they trade pretty good.

(EDIT - The provided list is far from perfect, but does have some decent symbols. Perhaps other forum members have better information, and can share it. I personally only day trade a subset of the list which varies based on market conditions. Most of my ETF work is done for longer term trades. Finally, if anyone improves on the provided draft, please share your work.)

In VT, I just have them on two plates/discs - 3X long, and 3X short. This works OK for me. But of course, we are all different.

Regards,

Jim B.

[Edited by jimb on 8/27/2015 12:35 PM]

Attached file : 140130 3X ETFs Draft A.doc (26KB - 256 downloads)

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JohnW

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Subject : RE: Visual ETF Trader Needs Inverse List
Posted : 9/17/2015 12:04 AM
Post #10472 - In reply to #9405

Thanks Jim B!

I'm sorry to be so slow to respond, but once I started digging in to ETF's I seem to have gone into a vastly unexplored area (for me at least).

I'm just using your list as a starting point, seems fine to me.
Even though liquidity seems low for some of the ETF's on your list I've read that this is not a real issue with ETF's in general.

In fact some of the ETF's on your list trade at only $3m per day, yet in the recent sharp sell off they correctly mirrored the market. Impressive.

So THANK YOU for starting me on this journey, MUCH APPRECIATED.
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John J

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Subject : RE: Visual ETF Trader Needs Inverse List
Posted : 9/18/2015 3:14 PM
Post #10474 - In reply to #9405

Hi Jim B,

Are you using leveraged ETFs for day or long term trading?

The consensus is that leveraged ETFs should only be used for day or very short term trading due to how they are designed (just google it for more info).
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